tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post116263746259531223..comments2023-11-05T23:25:31.498+11:00Comments on Wot Is It Good 4: passing candy out to kidsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-1162702935880828242006-11-05T16:02:00.000+11:002006-11-05T16:02:00.000+11:00thnx steve.xymphora's attacks on Chomsky are kinda...thnx steve.<BR/><BR/>xymphora's attacks on Chomsky are kinda funny. as Cannon has noted repeatedly, when xymphora gets a hold of a theory, he doesnt let go!<BR/><BR/>i'm talking a little out of my league here - but as i understand it, xymph's critique of chomsky is that chomsky argues that there is some sort of 'invisible hand' - an unidentified 'establishment' - to the extent that accurately describes xymph's argument, i agree with xymph that we need to identify the specific drivers: the specific people making the specific decisions, and the specific reason why they are making those decisions, which is why i try to tie things down to specific benefits (usually money, sometimes power) - and i often get slapped down by the smarter ones amongst us for discounting 'ideology' to the extent that i do.<BR/><BR/><I><BR/>My concern is with trying to stop an attack on Iran and any further foolishness by the United States. </I><BR/>me too<BR/><BR/><I>So, it seems to me that whether corporations are more in control than zionism, or vice versa, is a side issue. </I><BR/>me too - except that udnerstanding the mechanism is important if we want to recognize, and then break, the causality. to me, the question is not whether corporations or zionism (or anything else) are the drivers, but whether it is institutional forces or persons who are driving the mess. Hersh argues that there are '8 or 9' drivers (people) - to the extent that he is correct, then we need to shut those people down (and understanding their motivations would help ($ vs ideology) . <BR/><BR/>Alternatively, if the drivers aren't individuals (or even individual corporations), but 'institutions' (or 'movements') (e.g. corporatism, zionism, etc) - then we need to take a much different approach.<BR/><BR/>for example: <I>But, isn't the question how do we get them to see the error of their ways? </I><BR/>AFAIC, the approach depends on whether there are individuals or 'institutional forces' who/that are the root cause. if it is individuals, we need to stop them (which i think is substantially different to 'get them to see the error of their ways') - and if the problem is 'institutional forces' - then it's very difficult to 'get them (institutions) to *see* the error of their ways' - and we need to find a way to dismantle the system, to somehow remove the (apparently) inherent motivations/propensities/incentives to do stupid stuff like going to war all the goddamn time.<BR/><BR/>to summarize:<BR/><I>If we are focused on questions of blame...</I><BR/>i think the key is to understand the causality, not the blame.<BR/><BR/>(thanks again for your insight and input)lukeryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13280906371216516750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-1162672766240522702006-11-05T07:39:00.000+11:002006-11-05T07:39:00.000+11:00Xymphora mentioned this speech by Hersch while als...Xymphora mentioned this speech by Hersch while also discussing Chomsky. X is interested in developing the argument that Chomsky is a closeted Zionist. As I understand it, Chomsky has the idea that American corporate interests are in control and their preferences drive wars in Iraq or, presumably Iran. X believes, I take it, that by making American corporations responsible, he hides the power and influence of Zionism. <BR/><BR/>I am torn. There was a time when I read everything of Chomsky's that I could find. He seemed to provide a unique critique of not only corporate influence, but also of wrong and malicious Israeli policies. I got the idea he was not trying to minimize Israeli or Zionist wrong-doing.<BR/><BR/>However, I am willing to listen to the arguments. <BR/><BR/>My concern is with trying to stop an attack on Iran and any further foolishness by the United States. I would make an argument, if I knew one, against both Zionist and corporate plans to kill, rape, pillage, and burn. So, it seems to me that whether corporations are more in control than zionism, or vice versa, is a side issue. <BR/><BR/>I suspect that the reasons corporations or zionists do what they do involve pretty much the same thinking. Maybe there are some differences. But, isn't the question how do we get them to see the error of their ways? And isn't this a more important question than who are we to blame?<BR/><BR/>If we are focused on questions of blame, doesn't that divert our attention from questions about what we should be doing, or what would be effective?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com