tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post1458980300115983910..comments2023-11-05T23:25:31.498+11:00Comments on Wot Is It Good 4: Iraq was a war to stop the flow of oilUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-61897605345961400852007-05-06T19:13:00.000+10:002007-05-06T19:13:00.000+10:00if i'm not mistaken, wasn't Mahatir trying to crea...if i'm not mistaken, wasn't Mahatir trying to create a 'muslim' currency basket for trading oil? that would make the euro thing a walk in the park :-)<BR/><BR/>of course, the USD has been sinking like crazy anyway.<BR/><BR/>speaking of interviews - i was 'half' going to be on AirAmerica today discussing barlow - but it looks like we'll do it in a few weeks when more of the articles have been published.lukeryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13280906371216516750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-72037825084134557372007-05-06T18:42:00.000+10:002007-05-06T18:42:00.000+10:00That was an exceptional interview. Interesting abo...That was an exceptional interview. <BR/><BR/>Interesting about the prime sense. I wonder why some people who push the currency motive don't focus more on the eurozone side of it. Creating the eurozone was a gradual process and so was the climb in value vs. the dollar.<BR/><BR/>Yet I don't recall any overt US threats towards the eurozone countries.Trackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18387081215729592952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-16867371738245214722007-05-06T17:34:00.000+10:002007-05-06T17:34:00.000+10:00Any financial experts know how the euro plays into...<I>Any financial experts know how the euro plays into the petrodollar motive? </I><BR/><BR/>Noise - AFAIC, this is a red-herring - at least in the prime sense. That is, if oil is moved to a non-USD bourse, then both the supply and demand for USD shuold fall by the same amount... there is a separate issue about where/whether/how oil profits are repatriated. (e.g Palast was saying the other day on Horton that all Saudi profits are kept in the US)lukeryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13280906371216516750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-52155562351458289322007-05-05T08:50:00.000+10:002007-05-05T08:50:00.000+10:00Other reasons I gave the day the war started were ...Other reasons I gave the day the war started were oil, euro trading vs. the dollar, balance of economic and political power, profiteering...but I was a little off, according to <A HREF="http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/13/news-cooper.php" REL="nofollow">Air Force Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski</A>:<BR/><BR/><I>The neoconservatives needed to do more than just topple Saddam Hussein. They wanted to put in a government friendly to the U.S., and they wanted permanent basing in Iraq. There are several reasons why they wanted to do that. None of those reasons, of course, were presented to the American people or to Congress.<BR/><BR/></I>PNAC is alive and well.«—U®Anu§—»https://www.blogger.com/profile/01044248315262502099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-17059135151066660092007-05-05T00:45:00.000+10:002007-05-05T00:45:00.000+10:00Any financial experts know how the euro plays into...Any financial experts know how the euro plays into the petrodollar motive? Why didn't Bush declare war on the Eurozone countries if one of the primary concerns is preserving the dollar as foundation of oil trading?Trackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18387081215729592952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-14068499406423344252007-05-04T22:56:00.000+10:002007-05-04T22:56:00.000+10:00it was a war to stop the flow of oilI think it is ...<I>it was a war to stop the flow of oil</I><BR/><BR/>I think it is far far easier to argue that the sanctions policy of the US against Iraq (which ran from 1991 up to 2003) was in part designed to keep the oil, as far as was possible, firmly buried in the ground. Partly to punish Saddam for his actions and partly to preserve it for the future. I don't though really think that this was a factor behind the thinking for this lastest war. Far more important is the fact that the oil gets sold in Dollars, rather than any other currency, reserve or otherwise.<BR/><BR/>Where Enlightenment says: <I>The long-term, main reason for the war in Iraq is physical control over Iraq's vast oil resources.</I>, I myself would have said <I>The long-term, main benefit of the war in Iraq is fiscal control over Iraq's vast oil resources.</I> What is happening now is about control of the oil, I don't disagree with that, it is the nature of that control that I would dispute. As to the actual roots of the invasion, as I have stated, I think this is all directly linked back to GWI. There were and are many secondary reasons for the continued occupation of Iraq. As to the primary reason, I continue to believe that this was in essence a personal struggle between just two men. George Bush '43 saw that Saddam was dangerous. He knew that in some regards Saddam had gotten the better of his old man. He feared Saddam too. So he struck out, just like the cowboy that he is, against the rattlesnake that was disturbing his (and his wider family's) peace of mind.Andrew Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08086821277372396981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-52270620468449024732007-05-04T15:28:00.000+10:002007-05-04T15:28:00.000+10:00i wish evolution was more discerningi wish evolution was more discerninglukeryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13280906371216516750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-43660978998588258492007-05-04T15:22:00.000+10:002007-05-04T15:22:00.000+10:00Two good articles about the GOP candidates Uranus,...Two good articles about the GOP candidates Uranus, good call. Of special note:<BR/><BR/>"I, for one, found it extremely "reassuring" that only three out of ten of the Republican candidates for president don't believe in evolution."<BR/><BR/>Yes, and it seems that ten out of ten haven't been beneficiaries of evolution. To call them cavemen is an insult to cavemen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-55362986756557016182007-05-04T15:09:00.000+10:002007-05-04T15:09:00.000+10:00I switched to Comedy Central. I couldn't believe t...I switched to Comedy Central. I couldn't believe the idiotic shit they were saying. It might play in Tel Aviv, but it wasn't the kind of thing a majority in the U.S. wants to hear.«—U®Anu§—»https://www.blogger.com/profile/01044248315262502099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-50600964948650910652007-05-04T14:57:00.000+10:002007-05-04T14:57:00.000+10:00Thanks Uranus, I will check them out. And yes, the...Thanks Uranus, I will check them out. And yes, the GOP debate, from the short amount of it I could stomach watching it seemed like a night at the Bürgerbrau Keller.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-35868594155279074532007-05-04T14:50:00.000+10:002007-05-04T14:50:00.000+10:00Sure: The Reassuring Old Line @ http://digbysblog....Sure: The Reassuring Old Line @ http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/05/reassuring-old-line-by-digby-was.html and St. Ronnie and the Mulletheads @ http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/05/st.html. Seeing the GOP candidate pool was deeply troubling. I should be used to it by now.«—U®Anu§—»https://www.blogger.com/profile/01044248315262502099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-76801319296393931372007-05-04T14:47:00.000+10:002007-05-04T14:47:00.000+10:00Uranus-- I'm sorry, but could you paste the addres...Uranus-- I'm sorry, but could you paste the addresses of the articles on here please? I don't know why but it won't click on them. I mean when I click on them it doesn't do anything. Maybe it's because I don't have Javascript but I couldn't get them to work. I think I found one of them on Digby but I'm not sure if it's one of the 2 you were talking about. Thanks very much, and sorry but it's an old computer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-21781628564663762412007-05-04T14:27:00.000+10:002007-05-04T14:27:00.000+10:00Digby has 2 good articles up, 1 and 2. I can't hel...Digby has 2 good articles up, <A HREF="http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/05/reassuring-old-line-by-digby-was.html" REL="nofollow">1</A> and <A HREF="http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/05/keeping-it-close-by-digby-i-have-said.html" REL="nofollow">2</A>. I can't help but comment...«—U®Anu§—»https://www.blogger.com/profile/01044248315262502099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-2184039588449289832007-05-04T13:48:00.000+10:002007-05-04T13:48:00.000+10:00In the first paragraph it should read "a threat TO...In the first paragraph it should read "a threat TO some of the Middle Eastern oil flow".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-45509989176998157522007-05-04T13:45:00.000+10:002007-05-04T13:45:00.000+10:00Regarding Iraq being a war to "shut down the flow ...Regarding Iraq being a war to "shut down the flow of oil" as the primary reason for invasion and occupation, I would have to respectfully disagree. Though I agree that there are short-term benefits for the oil barons in spike in prices whenever there is even a threat of some of the Middle Eastern oil flow, that would be a bonus but not the primary reason. <BR/><BR/>The main reason for invading and occupying Iraq would have to be the long-term matter of physically occupying Iraq's oil fields, and installing a puppet "Iraqi" oil ministry to grant sweetheart deals to American oil companies so they can suck the oil and natural gas out of Iraq at cost like they themselves owned it. A nice complacent puppet state with a friendly pro-U.S. puppet government that gladly grants the U.S. military permanent basing rights. Of course that isn't the way it turned out, and they were about as short-sighted and ignorant as they were with the Bay of Pigs fiasco, but that doesn't mean the way it turned out is the way they planned it, rather it is about the opposite. And their puppet "Iraqi" government is seen, both inside Iraq and by the majority of people just about everywhere but in the U.S., for what it is, the neo-colonial American manipulator with an "Iraqi" face. And this quagmire,<BR/>by any objective analysis,<BR/>has strengthened and is strengthening Iran's hand immeasurably.<BR/><BR/>So it hasn't gone anywhere near like what they planned, but their main reason for invading and occupying Iraq would have to be the long-term reason of long-term control of Iraq's oil extraction, repairing the years of damage and neglect to Iraq's oil infrastructure and making it into the most efficient oil producer it can be. It is a critical front in their global effort at resource domination which they not-so-convincingly disguise as the "war on terror". And Uranus, I couldn't agree more, "That they don't have the political and military acumen to pull it off doesn't mean they don't want it." And that they didn't have the foresight to see that this is the way it would turn out doesn't mean they intended it this way. The long-term, main reason for the war in Iraq is physical control over Iraq's vast oil resources.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-16115209107397272992007-05-04T12:46:00.000+10:002007-05-04T12:46:00.000+10:00(singing) Where do I begin to tell the story of ho...<I>(singing) Where do I begin to tell the story of how great a love can be?</I> I was up all night before the morning of the preemptive invasion. I went into our usual chatroom (now nonexistant so MSN didn't have to turn over a log of all conversations and IP addresses to the government) and was talking loudly to everyone about women's breasts. They were talking about what they believed were the reasons for going to war, and whatever reasons they gave, I cursed at them and told them to shut up, that I was talking about boobs (real ones, not the falsies working in Washington).<BR/><BR/>Finally, I told them my version of the bottom line for going to war. Does it still hold up? I said, these guys are crazy. They want to take over the world and think destroying it and killing everybody is how to do it.<BR/><BR/>Was I wrong to hate war and republicans, and to say that? Tonight's GOP debate was ample proof I was right. That they don't have the political and military acumen to pull it off doesn't mean they don't want it.«—U®Anu§—»https://www.blogger.com/profile/01044248315262502099noreply@blogger.com