tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post4706890957969970003..comments2023-11-05T23:25:31.498+11:00Comments on Wot Is It Good 4: Islam taking root in Turkey's bureaucracyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-80302592175470638842007-05-31T13:52:00.000+10:002007-05-31T13:52:00.000+10:00SteveA - actualy, all i did was make a few changes...SteveA - actualy, all i did was make a few changes. I could have done a much better job with a bit more research/time - but the main issues, the parallels, jumped straight out at me.<BR/><BR/>Even more striking was that this was published by the IHT - a sub-brand of the NYT - yet it's near impossible to imagine a similar piece being published in the US.<BR/><BR/>i don't think that piscianus jr found this particular post particularly objectionable, but rather used this post to make a general point that s/he'd been meaning to mention for a while. <BR/><BR/>I'm not apologetic about atheism, obviously, and I'd be happy to let religious folks go about their business - however, in 2007, it's almost impossible to comment about war and US politics absent any discussion of religion. And yep, it's the worst of the worst of religion that currently dominates the discussion. I'm happy to leave liberal religionists all alone - but religionists who hate people, or science, because the bible says xyz deserve (IMHO) what they get - and politicians who pander to the bigots deserve to be shown up for what they are.<BR/><BR/>Kax: <I>This is not to say there aren't religious people who are good. or, that religion and spirituality are one and the same thing.</I><BR/>bingo.lukeryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13280906371216516750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-71578511242483641352007-05-31T12:38:00.000+10:002007-05-31T12:38:00.000+10:00Well, you can't be too careful. More people have b...Well, you can't be too careful. More people have been killed and maimed in the name of organized religion than any other cause. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, it seems to be a way that people can assuage their consciences while comitting heinous acts in the name of their God. This is not to say there aren't religious people who are good. or, that religion and spirituality are one and the same thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-49657870161585090332007-05-31T12:28:00.000+10:002007-05-31T12:28:00.000+10:00Luke,I have my own concerns.First, I thought the p...Luke,<BR/><BR/>I have my own concerns.<BR/><BR/>First, I thought the parallels were damn clever. It made me wonder if the changes in the United States were actually as you suggested in the body of the piece, and whether there might be some underlying reasons why the similarities might so exist.<BR/><BR/>I then wondered whether the claims you made about the United States were really true, or, were they made up in order to parallel the changes in Turkey and only had the sound of truth, but there was no evidence to support your claims.<BR/><BR/>Then I wondered what it was about this piece, in particular that piscianus jr. found so objectionable.<BR/><BR/>I would have thought that opposition to the effects of religion in society, whether Turkish or American, would be a commonly held position, and not something that would offend or even surprise the deeply religious. <BR/><BR/>I can go along with jr. that the use of profanity in talking about religion could get in the way of your audience hearing your argument. Insofar as you indicate we should fuck religion, you are going to agitate the very people I would think you'd want to reach....Well, maybe one doesn't always have to be on task.<BR/><BR/>I suppose there was a limited goal involved in the post above, surely not one where you'd try to change the hearts and minds of the opposition. But, say there is this terrible change taking place in the country. It's a change that involves government being taken over by religious fanatics of one sort or another. The piece above points out to a part of your audience things about what's going on that they would not be surprised about, and consider par for the course. There apparently is another part of your audience that may see these changes brought about by religious ideas, and find those changes in general nothing to get worked up over. In fact, they may be sympathetic to them. <BR/><BR/>I can imagine that in corrupt secular societies the only honest politicians might be from the religious parties, irregardless of whatever religious baggage they also bring along with them. In other words, I might vote for Hamas or the Black Panther Party because they are honest bottomline. I might figure no matter what else, you can deal with an honest person.<BR/><BR/>So, I would resist smashing up religious people just because one figures bad things have happened at some times, in some places, because of religion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-12828852818451979942007-05-31T10:17:00.000+10:002007-05-31T10:17:00.000+10:00Thanks for your comment. I've put it on the front ...Thanks for your comment. I've put it on the front page.<BR/><BR/>I suspect that most people here agree with you.lukeryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13280906371216516750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5194776.post-40495299256998330982007-05-31T08:15:00.000+10:002007-05-31T08:15:00.000+10:00Lukery, The Islamist/Christianist parallel work...Lukery,<BR/> The Islamist/Christianist parallel works in some contexts, I don't think it works here. Turkey has been essentially a military dictatorship for close to a century, a secularist military dictatorship. The United States has not.<BR/> I hope you will forgive me for the following comment, which I've wanted to make for a long time; I find this is as good an occasion as any.<BR/> This is a great blog; in my opinion one of the best there is. I read it almost daily. I greatly appreciate and admire your work bringing to light the vast networks of corruption that underlie the "legitimate" poltiics and economy of the world today. It is hard to get this extremely valuable information, and it is your specialty.<BR/> On the other hand, you have made it clear on many occasions that you are anti-religion, full stop. It's bad and it's all the same. <BR/> Now this is your blog, and that being the case, you may write whatever you like; but for this reader, at least, your writing on anything to do with religion, totally unlike your other stuff, shows an almost complete ignorance of, not to mention lack of sympathy with, the subject. It's kind of like your hobby horse, and in my opinion (at least in the uninformed way you handle it) has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the blog. So I overlook it. But I do find it a bit painful.priscianus jrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07466057971073067882noreply@blogger.com