Thursday, September 21, 2006

Extraordinary times demand extraordinary measures

* madsen via email from LeeB:
Which brings us to our current dilemma. George W. Bush has trampled on our Constitution, has been found to have authorized illegal surveillance of Americans in violation of the U.S. Constitution, and tortured those protected under U.S. law and the Geneva Conventions. Senators of Bush's own party now realize that Bush and his cronies may have committed war crimes and they are not eager for Bush to have the U.S. back out of its Geneva Convention treaty commitments. And then there is Iran. From all indications, Bush and his neocon war council are determined to go to war with Iran sooner rather than later. Current and retired senior military officers have reached their breaking points with the Bush administration over torture and another bloody war. They are also well aware that Iraq Coalition Provisional Authority war criminal Jerry Bremer presided over a cabal of Republican loyalists who enriched themselves and their families with lucrative salaries and contracts -- at the cost of the lives of hundreds of American servicemen and women and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis.
[ . . . ]

The response by loyal Americans to either a Bush war with Iran or another rigged election, or both, is clear. Every U.S. military officer swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, including enemies occupying the Oval Office. And it may take temporarily suspending a very small part of the Constitution in order to save our Constitutional Republic from neocon tyranny and dictatorship.

The Thai military decided to suspend the entire Thai Constitution in an interim measure before a return to democratic rule. The U.S. military, in response to Bush's numerous violations of the U.S. Constitution and orders to engage in a potentially disastrous war with Iran, could merely step in and suspend Article I, Section 9; Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution to pave the way for a return to democratic rule. That Clause is the Bill of Attainder clause, which states, "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed." A Bill (or Writ) of Attainder is when a legislature (or another governing tribunal such as the Joint Chiefs of Staff) declares a person or group of persons guilty of a crime or crimes, and nullifies their constitutional rights, without benefit of a trial." In this case, the U.S. military could, under international law (and pursuant to a suspension of the Bill of Attainder clause in the U.S. Constitution), declare that Bush, Cheney, and other high level administration perpetrators have violated the Geneva Conventions and other U.S. treaties having the effect of law, and, without the benefit of a U.S. trial, hand them over to the International Criminal Court in The Hague to face justice. In other words, the Joint Chiefs of Staff could issue a Writ of Attainder against the guilty parties in the Bush administration. Afterwards, the Writ of Attainder clause of the U.S. Constitution could be restored to force. Extraordinary times demand extraordinary measures -- and the founders of the United States wanted it that way. We owe it to them and their great sacrifices to carry on the revolutionary spirit they bequeathed to us.

madsen has a tendency to get worked up prior to elections, justifiably IMHO. I'm not sure that a military overthrow is the only solution - but I've been 'advocating' (if that's the right word) that it is our best chance for 3 years now.

There was some talk a while back via sy hersh that folks in the military are ready to revolt if ordered to attack Iran. I think Hersh was talking about mass resignations - but I'm not sure that will have the desired effect. Let's hope some of them at least have contingency plans in case - and if they are going to do it, that it happens when they get told to attack iran, or steal another election. whichever comes first.


rimone said...

Senators of Bush's own party now realize that Bush and his cronies may have committed war crimes and they are not eager for Bush to have the U.S. back out of its Geneva Convention treaty commitments.

i love that 'now realise' shite. chickenshit frightened fuckers.

and liiiiii-ars.

lukery said...

they 'now realise' they might be culpable

rimone said...

bull-fuckin-shit. 'now realise' my ass!

they just hoped nobody was paying attention cause of all the other shit they've flung at US and the world over the last almost six years.

fuck 'em and hard--w/diseases and justice for ALL.

whitevudoo said...

ALL OF BUSHCO and any other corrupt elected official should be impeached,prosecuted and EXECUTED
The whole world is wishing americans will clean house of all the WAR CRIMINALS,TRAITORS,THIEVES that have been abusing america and the WORLD since FUCKING INSANE ILLEGAL NEO-CONS fixed the first elections,it's true.
And if it doesn't happen look out for the UNIVERSAL LAW OF KARMA, one law they cannot corrupt !!!

RONIN said...

Even with the BushCo Crime Family, I can't believe we've come to the point where we're actually talking about a posible military coup in the U.S.

Having said that, I would fully support one if it would stop these drooling madmen from attacking Iran.

whitevudoo said...

YES excellent idea, a new revolution against tyranny in the third world country that america has become. And seize all their assets to pay back for their crimes,bar all of their relatives from ever holding office again,they'll be back for revenge ,even after the people have spoken .

lukery said...

ronin - i can't believe that we're talking about a posible military coup in the U.S. either - let alone hoping for one. my how times have changed.

whitevudoo i agree with all you say apart from the 'EXECUTED' thing. i have a thing about the death penalty - but i'm tempted to change my mind every now and again...

the revolution is nigh (or (and?) we're all fucked)

Anonymous said...

Indeed Lukery, I cannot believe it would be "a hope" to see this happen either...or for our "saving grace." But if Fitzgerald, the US military and whatever uncorrupted officials, agents and anyone else sworn to uphold the Constitution don't get off their @sses and call a halt to this VERY soon-like within the next week or so-the United States of America as we all knew it is OVER. Democracy cancelled...
I'll never forgive any of them if this happens-and they shouldn't bother to call themselves Americans since they are aiding and abetting an un-American, illegal form of government and allowing its overthrow to be complete.
Rove has stated he has an "October Surprise" for the nation. Only God and the devil know what that may be...
Who knew America was so full of cowards...where's a real cowboy when we need one?

calipendence said...

It seems like we're heading to an opposite scenario posed by the movie in the 60's "Seven Days in May", where a loyal military advisor, played by Kirk Douglas, to an otherwise decent president had to expose and stop a coup by what many publicly saw as a good general (Burt Lancaster), but who had other goals of an "extremist takeover" probably from a crowd of the same likes of what Bushco is now. Now in reality, the good guys and the bad guys are reversed. That is what is so scary. When you get to this point its hard to put "trust" in a set of "good guys" to help restore our consitution and system of checks and balances, when they could have just as much ulterior power motives as those that they are pushing out of power. This is why, once we get Bush and his cronies out of power, if and when we do so, we need to make sure to put in some additional ammendments to the constitution (like a no-confidence citizen vote process or something like that) where we allow for a people-generated solution (without resorting to violent measures) can be used to force out a conspiracy of abusers like we have in power now.

I think the big problem we have today that I've been saying for some time, and in my mind is becoming bigger over time, is that we have a both a blessing and a curse of having had a decent, peaceful, and civilized society in the most powerful country now on earth for those generations that are living. Few people are left from the times of the depression or the civil war before that.

I say it's a blessing, since ideally it is what we all want to have (not necessarily to be the most "powerful" country, but one where outside forces can't take away this good situation from us). I say it is a curse, because I think that fear of the unkonwn if we try to work outside of our constitutional system of balances is paralyzing most of us into inaction now, unlike what would be the case in other countries, where they've had more recent times that they or their parents can remember of knowing when the time had come that they have to use force to change a bad situation, and also knowing that later, a better system could be restored after the chaos was overcome.

We don't have that experience here. We don't know what would be the endgame if we decided to take up arms. There's no centralized organization that we can all work with that would be organized and powerful enough to take on that of the most powerful government on earth if we needed to. We don't know if they would brush us aside (through th emedia, etc. like they've been doing with lesser contentious civil disobediance we've been engaging in over the last few years), or if they'd draw the line at some point and start using more extreme measures to shut dissent down, as was hinted by the "testing of microwave weapons". Most of us are afraid to take on that unkonwn outcome. We don't want to upset the apple cart we've had for so long and risk making this the worst possible government on earth if martial law is declared here.

In other countries in the past, the citizens in these situaions, even if faced with a very powerful government against them, have felt that there were other governments or world entities as powerful or more powerful than the government they are dealing with, that could through various means come to their aid to help them shut down any move towards oppression, though in many cases that's not happened. Nevertheless, that gave folks hope that helped them do things as needed to bring down a government. If the U.S. didn't exist at the time the Soviet Union fell, I wonder if their people would have had the courage to stand behind Yeltsin, etc. to stand up to their government. They knew that we would help support forces that would help bring down any move towards extreme opression if it happened. And so did those in control of the communist government at the time. We unfortunately don't have that scenario here now. There is no outside entity we can count on that would take on a Bush regime if they decided to suddenly suspend the constitution and come down on our citizens hard. Whether or not the EU or others might come in forcefully to help us, the perception that they won't or won't be able to is what keeps our climate of fear more debilitating.

This is why there was the most misunderstood part of V for Vendetta movie recently that I think struck a nail on the head. Many couldn't understand why V would go through with the masquerade of torturing Evie, etc. and still be true to wanting to "liberate" the people from the dictatorship posed in that movie. The key was to get rid of the fear of death or anything else that the state could do to the individual. This is what the Islamic extremists have learned. They've lost their fear of death, and that's what make them such a threat to this administration. Now terrorism itself at times when it is massacring innocent people is another thing that I don't care to justify here, but until we here all collectively shut down our fear of death and the unkonwn, this revolution won't happen.

One thing I'm hopeful for is that if we do get enough vets coming back from Iraq who've been put into extreme situations and have lost their fear in simliar ways that Evie had in a similar fashion, that many of them running for congress as Dems (and hopefully winning seats), will use this greater relative courage, to help lead us at times when we do need to put aside our fears if more extreme measures are needed.

I don't think our systemic means to fight this regime are worn out yet, but there will need to be some more radical responses needed at times I think. Perhaps even something like California secession (which my handle kind of was set up in sympathy for back in 2004), which might lead other states to do the same thing, might force the federal government's hand, but bring state resources to bear in helping us fight this government oppression. That means we first need to vote out Arnold and Bruce McPherson this November, and follow up with perhaps voting on a state proposition to set up a state militia to be used for state business instead of what we'd normally appeal to the national guard to do, which could also serve as a starting point for having an opposition military force later if that's needed. At some point, if we here in California continue to be asked to pay in more than we're getting back from the feds, we might declare that we'll stop doing so as a first blow in such of a move towards secession. California as a separate nation would be theoretically the fifth most powerful on earth (economically, etc.), though a lot of logistics would have to be worked out to make it independent. Therefore it perhaps could be that "extra entity of support" that would remove citizens fear of moving against an oppressive Bush regime government. Especially if states like Oregon, Washington, New York and other eastern states joined on at some point (and made a coalition with Canada).

We're a bit far away from this at this point, but if we do get to what's being discussed here, at some point it may come to that. Though I'd like to hope that a well meaning general would do the right thing and put back in place a constitutionally run government after the smoke clears, we might have to be prepared for the military being a problem too afterwards.

It is movements like that, and not just random citizen unrest, which will be needed to throw out this regime by force if it is needed.

damien said...

Calipedence, some excellent points and very well said. I'm a bit doubtful about the public context in which changes are taking place within the US and globally. It's a question of awareness and public perceptions as they now stand. What is it, 70% of Americans currently believe Iran possesses nuclear weapons, or is close to getting them? That kind of disinformation is a powerful mechanism for drowning out any voices of protest. If there is a nuclear 'October Surprise' then the propaganda value would be almost insourmountable. Police state mechanisms, heavy censorship, web site crackdowns, Republican gains in the Nov elections etc. It simply may not be possible to generate any public acceptance for civil protest. US society will be deeply divided and the majority will be driven by fear and not in the mood to entertain 'wild conspiracies' of any kind.

There are other ingredients. Remember, for a lot of Americans the war on terror is still far away. The shops are open, the Dodgers are playing better, American Idol and Katie Couric are all 'evidence' to many people that the mechanisms of US democracy are functioning just fine, despite the war in Iraq. So there are enormous social and cultural factors at work against asking any hard political questions. A nuclear explosion - or even a dirty bomb - is a hell of a shove towards social compliance.

I'm not very hopeful. I read the papers in my own country, Australia, and I am appalled at the superficial, uninformed and jingoistic material there. Our leading newspapers are all Murdoch owned with feature writers somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan. Our letters columns are full of heated debate about whether muslims are 'good' or 'bad'. But there is almost no informed debate because the kind of background material we get here with Lukery, and elsewhere, is just totally absent. People are discussing the Middle East as they would football teams, with a thick spread of 'war on terror' pasted on top.

Undoubtedly Europe is very different and I expect that they would take a far more vigorous stand if Bush decided to go nuclear against Iran (or by proxy, through Israel). If Iran gets seriously attacked just keep in mind that China, Russia and Iran have a mutual defence pact and that events in the US could be completely overshadowed by conflict in the ME with those countries.

The capacity of US as a society to resist the fait acompli that would follow any nuclear-type terrorist incident within the US is almost zero, in my view. These power bunnies are not going to give up without a fight, and they will use EVERY false statement and piece of propaganda they can to achieve their ends.

It's a strange aspect that a US military revolt may provide the only solution. I know some Americans whose passports are in place if things turn nasty.

One thing I have figured out about these guys. They ARE on a complete par with the 1930s German leadership. Completely criminal, unpredictable and VERY dangerous. Let's hope that luck prevails and these bozos forgoe the big pusch. Cheers.

rimone said...

whitevudoo: ALL OF BUSHCO and any other corrupt elected official should be impeached,prosecuted and EXECUTED


funny you mention karma. a few weeks back it occurred to me to wonder if we American citizens will be held to karmic account for not doing shit after the supremes handed that prick his 2000 xmas present.

anonymous: I'll never forgive any of them if this happens-and they shouldn't bother to call themselves Americans since they are aiding and abetting an un-American, illegal form of government and allowing its overthrow to be complete.

that's why i call them 'amerikans' and 'amerika'. fuckers.

everything Calipendence said apart from the particulars of California, which i'm not up on.

and what Damien said (too tired to go through each point, sorry).

rimone said...

and ronin as too sleepy to comment more fully.

calipendence said...

Thanks for the responses folks. Rimone, I actually have an old VCR copy of the TV series Amerika from 1987 that I've not watched in ages. I see that it's not been released on DVD at all. HMMMM! I wonder why! Even though it posits the Soviet Union taking over the U.S., it sounds like the net effect of what would happen is what we might expect from Bushco too. Assuming we have "Soviet style" oppression here in Amerika now, I might be persuaded to help start a samizdat distribution of DVD dubs of these tapes. :) Someone else who's got a copy of Canal+'s release of Kill the Messenger want to do a trade? :)

calipendence said...

Here's a link that some might want to invest in. It seems like this "Amerika" poster has new relevance and might be something we might want to put up in many places prominently!

calipendence said...

Ack... I notice know that the series is owned by ABC, which I'm guessing is NOW owned by Disney where it wasn't before. I'm guessing that might have something to do with why we don't see this series re-released on DVD, if Disney now owns the rights to it. Hopefully buying this poster doesn't fuel their empire. Though perhaps if we all bought enough of them, it might send them a strong message too about their Path to 9/11 bullshit!

Kathleen said...

The natives are restless.

Storm the Bastille, already.

lukery said...

thnx everyone. D, CP and anon fd'd

rimone said...

Calipendence, i never saw 'amerika' but would love to.

about posters and flags and such, i prefer the flag in Gordon's secret room in V for Vendetta. it's here but you must scroll a bit down for it.

in the film it had 'The Coalition of the Willing To Power' proudly emblazoned on it.

calipendence said...

Wow... I just did a dub of the first two nights of the miniseries I had on tape from 1987 (and hadn't watched since) onto DVD. It was a very spooky experience sitting through that four hours. And there still is 5 more "nights" of shows to get to yet. I think I can see why Disney/ABC isn't about to rerelease this work any time soon. Though it was made more as an "anti-Soviet" work at the time, it really works more as an anti-authoritarian rule film, and watching it now almost 20 years ago gives one a very weird perspective when comparing what it was showing then, and what we are showing it now. Curiously, one of the show sponsors that showed up in the show credits, etc. was Coors, noted for its conservative and neocon supporting stances now. You could almost substitute the roles that Sam Neill and others had in here for neocons and other neocon enablers (like Colin Powell, etc.) and have the movie work the same way and posit that this is in the not to distant future of Bush America/neocon empire world. There are many parallels to today's society:

1) Many in the film blaming down and out "exiles" for their problems like many blame illegal immigrants here today for their problems.
2) The government taking over farms and causing problems for people that used to be self-reliant in that respect to today's reality here where the corporatocracy has taken over most of America's family farms now (compared to what was happening in those days).
3) People not knowing who to trust. Who's "playing the game" which kids are being trained to do instead of think for themselves, much like they are indoctrinated to do today here.
4) People frustrated in not knowing whether to try and fight the slow fight within the system and not do much of anything very quickly, versus the "dangerous" types like the character of Kris Kristoferson, who got shoved in a gulag for many years (and had just been re-released), who they were afraid would get the system to come down on them quickly and snuff out any chance they had of change. That debate sound familiar here?

Though there were differences in how they claimed Soviets were trying to ram communist ideology on us versus capitalism, which in some cases might be somewhat true, those pieces seemed to be far less material than the fact that they and Bushco are both lying about what they are providing to society with each of their stated ideologies, and the hypocrisy that stands out with this power. The big common element so far was everyone's notion of family, and that helping family and friends to survive and get them through the mess to give them a set of priorities to follow. Perhaps we should be thinking on how we can preserve our lives and health collectively too while still being determined to find a practical (even if dangerous) way to bring down these thugs.

What was also interesting is at the end of these two episodes, I'd recorded both the local news segment that night and most of the Nightline segment later that evening (that got cut short at the end of the tape during an interview Koppel had with Vladimir Posner).

Watching that Nightline segment that was themed after this show on Soviet culture was totally weird to watch. This all was from 1987 (the "sappy 80's decade", but this material doesn't really seem that way watching it). Coincidentally, the Nightline segment started with Koppel talking about the Soviet version of the movie "Seven Days in May" and NO, I did NOT watch or remember this part of this show before I wrote my previous post referring to the same movie. It seems like the Soviet version was more accurate in that the good guys didn't win at the end, just like (so far) the good guys haven't slapped down the bad guys in office today. They had a lot of weird commentaries on Russian media, news, etc. then, including clips of things like Russian kids break dancing in a disco to "One Night in Bangkok" (given what happened in Thailand last week), and the news segment analyzing the coverage of what was going on in Afghanistan at the time when the Soviets were occupying it, not us.

I totally got freaked out by this experience. I'll try and make DVD copies if some of you can promise to make more copies to pass on to others here (I can't make copies for all of you. Let's follow the rules of samizdat, and not make it a "centralized" distribution setup! And speaking of time and valuing family, I gotta run shortly and meet my Mom to pay a visit to my dad at the Assisted living home shortly and celebrate our birthdays together. His is today, and mine is tomorrow.

lukery said...

happy bday to you both!

rimone said...

happy both b-days, Calipendence.

ps, i'd love copies of 'amerika' but i'm all the way over here--i'd pay postage but can honestly tell you that i won't be able to copy and pass them on (too technologically stoopit).