Thursday, November 23, 2006

who will play SISMI?

* larisa points to this YouTube interview SYHersh/Wolf Blitzer. Go read Larisa's interpretation of the interview. I wanted to highlight this:
"6). We are conducting cross-border "forays" into Iran. The "we" in this scenario is the United States along with Israel, but also includes now Party to Free Life in Kurdistan (PJAK). As I reported and as Hersh has previously reported, we are conducting some massive clandestine activities in Iran that are less about HUMIT and more about destabilization. My reports have focused on the MEK, so this added Contras-like element into the game makes things even more interesting. PJAK is closely tied to PKK, a terrorist organization that the US has also supported in the past and is allegedly still supporting."
(she also notes that we've found our Curveball, and she wonders who will play SISMI)

Here is the quote from Hersh's article:
"Another critical issue for Gates will be the Pentagon’s expanding effort to conduct clandestine and covert intelligence missions overseas. Such activity has traditionally been the C.I.A.’s responsibility, but, as the result of a systematic push by Rumsfeld, military covert actions have been substantially increased. In the past six months, Israel and the United States have also been working together in support of a Kurdish resistance group known as the Party for Free Life in Kurdistan. The group has been conducting clandestine cross-border forays into Iran, I was told by a government consultant with close ties to the Pentagon civilian leadership, as “part of an effort to explore alternative means of applying pressure on Iran.” (The Pentagon has established covert relationships with Kurdish, Azeri, and Baluchi tribesmen, and has encouraged their efforts to undermine the regime’s authority in northern and southeastern Iran.) The government consultant said that Israel is giving the Kurdish group “equipment and training.” The group has also been given “a list of targets inside Iran of interest to the U.S.” (An Israeli government spokesman denied that Israel was involved.)"

* Mizgin notes:
"Hersh's information on PJAK doesn't square with my information on PJAK and my information doesn't come from CIA, the Turkish foreign ministry, or Arab and Turk media. Hersh has a pattern of writing that shows he relies on the unreliable for his information. Maybe he's stupid; maybe he's just another typical lazy Western journalist; maybe he's working for the Turkish government."

* mizgin also says:
"CIA was at Qandîl in the last half of 2003 and first half of 2004. Then there were reports that they were back at Qandîl this last summer. There was a lot of discussion about this among the Southern Kurds at the time. Eastern Kurds too. The reports all indicated that CIA had only spoken to PKK with no mention of PJAK.

For the extreme PKK sympathizers, this isn't an inconsistency because we know who is the president of the executive council of KKK--Murat Karayilan. Cemil Bayik is the commander of PJAK. PKK admitted publicly that CIA had been to Qandîl but did not discuss publicly what had taken place. Among extreme PKK sympathizers, who know PKK and know the mindset of the organization and the goals, the speculation is that Karayilan listened to CIA. It's possible that Bayik was present also. Other than listening, at this point, there is no indication of any "agreement" having taken place.

IF there had been any kind of agreement like the one Hersh talks about, this would be a matter of national security for the Kurdish people and must be treated as such.
Things will be relatively quiet from now until spring. Winter is setting in. If it is difficult for gerîlas to move about in their own environment, it is impossible for anyone else."


starroute said...

I'm not sure there is a SISMI equivalent this time around -- and I suspect that blogs will become a lot more important than Judy Miller and her ilk as a way of mainstreaming rumors and disinfo. One I've stumbled across that is probably worth tracking closely -- though I admit I haven't had the heart to do so myself -- is .

This is a site whose endorsers include Michael Ledeen ("I read it every day") and whose latest entry concerns an article by Amir Taheri -- a Benador Associates client,
widely considered to be a disinfo agent, and the source of the recent false claim that Iran had enacted a dress code for Jews. It's also heavy on stories from the New York Sun, the Jerusalem Post, and YNet News -- as well as links to articles with titles like "Iran, Zimbabwe Vow To Challenge US, British World Domination." (Uh, somebody please tell me that's intended as humor. Please? Somebody?)

steven andresen said...

Have the Kurds in Iraq been given a promise that the U.S. will support a homeland for them consisting of what they have in Iraq, and what they can help break off of Iran, so long as they get out of Turkey?

This would seem to benefit the U.S. and the Turkish government. It depends on an Iraqi government that cannot resist. It gives the U.S. a local ally in destabilizing Iran.

Would someone in the U.S. who wanted such an effort facilitate the Turkish government's bribery of legislators to support various efforts in this effort.

Wasn't there also some report that the Israeli government was covertly supporting the Kurds in Iraq?

lukery said...

starroute. it can only be humour.

here's a conundrum for you that i havent been able to asnwer. how is it that judy miller usefulness is apparently, well, all used up, but taheri, for example, can have multiple lives? (not to mention ledeen et al)

lukery said...

steven - lots of perceptive questions, as always.

some more questions: 1) would turkey trust a stronger kurdish state right next door not to continue with their expansionist goals? 2) does the US own Turkey, or the other way around? 3) has the US (and Israel) done their blowback calculations?

steven andresen said...


Why would Turkey want to support a strong Kurdish state right at their border?

My first thought was to look at how the United States supported Indian Reservations right next to settlers. You get the Indians all in one place where you can watch them. You can go in and sell them whiskey.

Does Turkey own the United States, or the other way around?

My first thought, here too, is about whether the Mob in Chicago owns the Mob in New York, or the other way around. It would seem there's a give and take.

You asked whether any of these people consider the costs involved, have they thought about blowback?

Again, I'd think that so long as none of the people they're playing have WMD, then they probably figure they can manage the minor problems that arise as they crop up.

Mizgîn said...

Kurds in South Kurdistan (N. Iraq) are Kurds in South Kurdistan. Kurds in North Kurdistan (SE Turkey) are Kurds in North Kurdistan. Kurds in East Kurdistan (W. Iran) are Kurds in East Kurdistan. Kurds in West Kurdistan (N. Syria) are Kurds in West Kurdistan. Kurdistan, was just Kurdistan, before the West and its imperialism came along and cut it up into pieces.

KDP/PUK is not going to go into East Kurdistan and do anything, nor will they go into North Kurdistan. They have always only looked to protect South Kurdistan, specifically their own interests there. Rojavayî Kurds (West Kurdistan) are most likely split between loyalties to PKK, which has had a LOT of support from the Rojavayî, and KDP, which has recently made inroads there.

There are some 20 million Kurds in North Kurdistan, the single largest population of Kurds in the world. We are not giving up our land and we have never had "expansionist" goals. We want what has been stolen from us by others--our land and our freedom. As PKK has stated, if that can be done within the current borders, we accept it.

However, read the Turkish constitution and learn Turkish history. Or read this from KurdishMedia. I know for a fact the author, a Ba?ûrî (Southern) Kurd, is no PKK supporter:

Turkey is against a Kurdish political entity in Iraq because Turkey has denied Turkey‘s Kurds from the most basic ethnic and human rights and despite all the EU noise, according to the Turkish constitution, Kurds do not exist in Turkey. To put it simply: don’t allow Kurds to be free because Kurds in Turkey may also demand freedom.

The Turkish state is founded on the idea that Kurds do not exist. "Mountain Turks" must be assimilated, forcibly if necessary, or genocided, in order to ensure the "purity" of the superior Turkish ethnicity and culture. If one single Kurd exists anywhere on the planet, that one single Kurd will prove the lie that is the Turkish Republic's founding ideology. We will never accept to be Turks. Never. And it doesn't matter how many promises the US makes to anyone. We will NEVER accept it. THEY must accept that we exist and THEY must stop the genocide and treat us a full and equal citizens.

In 2003, on a trip to the US, Erdogan stated that Turkey would not accept an independent Kurdistan if it existed in Argentina. He lied. He will not accept the existence of ANY Kurd. That is the official policy of the Ankara regime.

Did the Israelis covertly support Kurds? Yes, in the 60s and 70s they "covertly" gave support to the Ba?ûrî (Southern) Kurds, so covertly, in fact that we all know about it. Recently? Apparently, recently, Israeli companies were hired by the Ba?ûrî to train them in counterterrorism, which would not be unusual given the "covert" history. Have the Israelis ever "covertly" supported the Bakûrî? Never. In fact, they are complicit in the crimes of the US and Turkish governments against the Kurdish people because they have also remained silent about Turkey's brutality and they assisted the international community in the capture of Apo in order to prevent Turkey's crimes from being brought to any international court.

Why is the only important thing that which BENEFITS only the US and Turkish governments? Why does no one ask Kurds what we want? Do you bother to ask Palestinians what they want, or do you run on the assumption of attaining only that which BENEFITS the US and Israeli governments?

This is what Hersh is doing. He has never spoken to a Kurd. He has never spoken to PKK (PJAK is PKK). He has never soiled himself, so to speak, by speaking to Kurds; he relies on non-Kurds for his sources about Kurds.

Let no one be deceived. We will not simply "acquiesce" (as Tony Blair's government recently insisted) in what "superior" cultures want to enforce on us for their own interests.

lukery said...

thnx mizgin - fp'd