Monday, December 04, 2006

cat - meet pigeons

* the great WIIG4 religious debate continues.

here's some fuel for the fire: one of the major problems that i have with 'god' (at least in western religions) is that she seems so goddamn 'human centric.' i'd be more comfortable with the notion of 'god' if it was portrayed in the context of 'mother nature' or some such.

are humans the 'chosen species'? (with the apparent subset of 'the chosen ones'?) - if so, why? or does the ant kingdom also have it's Moses and stone tablets and subsequent mass murder and so on? daisies too? is it the same god in each case?

Kristof 'asks' (kinda) in his latest column " Why Won't God Heal the Amputees?" - i'd ask different questions: is god a humanist? does she favour humans over all others species on her planet? or are they all equal? and if they are all equal, given the extraordinarily adverse impact that humans have on all others, then the question shouldnt be " Why Won't God Heal the Amputees?" - but "Why won't god save all of the species that humans are 'genociding' every day by killing all the humans?"

cat - meet pigeons


rimone said...

Lukery: i'd be more comfortable with the notion of 'god' if it was portrayed in the context of 'mother nature' or some such.

tell me about it..nature is my 'god' and fuck the dominionists.

and that's Richard Dawkins's site, as i'm sure you know. yay, Dawkins, lol.

Have Skunk said...

I don't have a problem with god, especially since god is a delusion created by imaginitive human beings to put bookends on their fears that all this might be random. Humans hate the fact they are random products of evolution and biology and chemistry and deny it at every opportunity. There is only chemistry, gravity and radiation. Beyond that, people just love to make shit up. There is no God. Nobody is watching. The Georges W. and H.W. Bush, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot are all proof there is no god. The demise of the Greeks proves their gods didn't exist. In WWII, the German army stamped 'Gott Mit Uns' on every belt buckle and see where that wishful advertising got them? A meteor is going to hit the earth and humans will be snuffed like a candle in a French whorehouse, just like the dinosaurs. Then the earth will recycle and start over: gravity, chemistry, radiation.

Kathleen said...

Don't confuse "western" religion with Judeo-Christian religion. There is a big difference. The ancient Greek and Roman religions had many gods and goddesses and deities in other life forms. I prefer reliigions that value male/female equally and other forms of life. The more "modern", you should pardon the expression, are male/homosapiens/egocentric,angry bung hole, ad nauseum. How boorish.

Bring back the Bachninalia and the Eleusinian mysteries.

You might want to read a great book, When God Was A Woman, by Merlin Stone AND Joseph Campbell's Hero With A Thousand Faces.

See you in the ethers fellow light beings.

Have Skunk said...

Gender and gender roles are culturally ascribed constructs, particularly where religions/superstitions/delusions and womb vs. penile dominance issues are concerned. Humans are lousy with dominance and power issues (see: social and religious hierarchical structures) which serve the biological purpose of enabling natural selection. Biology differentiates by sex because somebody has got to do the egg carrying (most of the time). Usually the egg carriers are disadvantaged by the nurturing necessity, thus the development over thousands of years of: the big fat idiot male worship, hierarchical structures, organized murder parties, politics and weaponry. Incidentally, women have allowed this behivior to evolve in men. For every NASCAR-watching (or pick your own social/cultural ritual) neandertal, there's an equally heavy-browed woman who enables him watch it. What we've got is basically a 20,000-year long episode of The Sopranos, in terms of human group dynamic. And no god is going to save us from ourselves because there is none.

Kathleen said...

I don't think The Sopranos have a monopoly on that particular syndrome. They may have the most popular variation on that tired old theme, though.

Speaking as an egg carrier. I've seen a few different fugues on that refrain.

If you consider conservation of energy and conservation of matter, people have to make shit up to keep from boring themselves to death, ad infinitum, so to speak.

LeeB said...

Y'all pay close attention to Kathleen's reading list! Or if not into reading (?!) go see about finding the videos. Bill Moyers interviewed Joseph Campbell and distilled it all into a 6-hour series called The Power of Myth. There are also about 13 hours or thereabouts of Joseph Campbell lectures - I think that is also called Hero With a Thousand Faces. It's all instructive. Stunning, in fact. For those of us who were not privileged to attend any of his classes, the videos are a treasure.

lukery said...

Have Skunk - good to see you.

Kathleen - hysterical.

LeeB said...

Luke: "are humans the 'chosen species'? (with the apparent subset of 'the chosen ones'?) - if so, why?"

Opposable thumbs?

lukery said...

LeeB - so that's the trick! ants & plants won't be able to turn the pages of the bible!

Anonymous said...

nice post

gt think about it...



My Photocommunity

rimone said...

hey Skunk *waves*

too tired to comment on everything i wanna apart to say i totally agree w/what Skunk and Kathleen and the rest of y'all said. and i love (and have) 'hero w/1000 faces', fantastic book. i saw 'the power of myth' and heartily recommend it as well.

when i get my new contacts prescription i'm gonna order 'when god was a woman'. i've read a bit here and there on this over the last ten years or so; totally by accident and found it fascinating.

LeeB said...

Luke, one wee correction: It's not so much that ants and plants won't be able turn the pages of the Bible as it is they can't write their own!

Personally, I think we would benefit from hearing from ants & plants; we might learn something.

rimone said...

LeeB: Personally, I think we would benefit from hearing from ants & plants; we might learn something.