Friday, January 20, 2006

grossman, sibel, Jamerson

further to my grossman post earlier today, the week after the Priest/Allen article where it appears that grossman successfully cemented the idea that the outing of plame was retribution for wilson's dissent, Pincus and Allen wrote another article, including a return appearance by our SAO (presumably grossman)
"The source elaborated on the conversations last week, saying that officials brought up Plame as part of their broader case against Wilson.
“It was unsolicited,” the source said. “They were pushing back. They used everything they had.”"
But here's the thing. Pincus did'nt believe it. He'd already declined to write the story on Plame because he didn't believe it, and here's how he tantalisingly chose to end the article:
" An administration source said, “One of the greatest mysteries in all this is what was really the rationale for doing it and doing it this way.”"
note that this was a week after the 'pure retribution' article - but before the meme turned to written stone.

here's another paragraph from the story that speaks to pincus' disbelief in the story:
"Administration sources said they believe that the officials who discussed Plame were not trying to expose her, but were using the information as a tool to try to persuade reporters to ignore Wilson."
too absurd. ignore wilson by creating a controversy about his wife? surely he doesn't believe that - but he obviously enjoys a dry sense of humour.

Emptywheel has stripped this article to its bones, although she doesn't come to the same conclusions that i have. She does say this however (without really explaining herself):
"Now, clearly Grossman or someone close to Grossman is a central source for this story. But I can't imagine how Grossman could be witness to the six journalist leak the week of July 7."
if we take both of those sentences to be true, then Grossman was presumably playing pointman in an orchestrated campaign. he wasn't some renegade 'turning on' his fellow criminals associates, he was delivering their collective message. and pincus saw straight through it. notice again how he turns to the story of grossman again on fitzmas eve.

(i've already discussed many of these issues here)

and for avid sibelologists, in the same post, emptywheel also points to this quote from Wilson's book (circa 1995).
"Throughout the two years I was at European Command, our relations with the Turkish military needed constant attention. [Deputy CINC] Jim Jamerson was on the phone several times a week with the U.S. ambassador to Turkey, Marc Grossman, working on the most trivial details. (Politics of Truth 218)"
Here's Jamerson's official bio:
General James L. Jamerson is deputy commander in chief, U.S. European Command, Stuttgart-Vaihingen, Germany. He oversees the daily activities of a unified command with an area of responsibility encompassing 83 countries and more than 13 million square miles. The command supports and advances U.S. interests and policies throughout the area. Also, it provides combat-ready forces in support of U.S. commitments to the NATO alliance.
Sounds like a busy job, yet he was micro-managing 'the most trivial details' of turkey's military? with grossman? I wonder if Douglas Dickerson was equally interested in such detail? In fact, i wonder if jamerson was at the same airbase in germany as the dickersons? sibel has often pointed to a NAATO connection...

(incidentally thats the only occassion that wilson mentions grossman in the book - and it's quite an obscure reference.)


emptywheel said...

Know what?

You (and Edmonds) have almost convinced me Grossman is not on the same team as the Wilson's (although I'd love to know if they're friends from UCSB). If so, though, I don't think he's the SAO. (Indeed, I have been thinking recently it's quite possibly Ari, particularly since Ari definitely heard about the slam on Plame on July 7, so he would know enough to say 1 X 2 X ^).

And here's the other questions I have. What are the real faultlines between the Neocons (many of whom play in your scenarios) and the realists. I've said before I could see Armitage, who allegedly has been involved in some pretty sketchy stuff in C. Asia, being involved. (And note, there's a diary by Booman that talks about Edmonds' Azeri translations that suggested the role of Azerbaijan in this which would be worthwhile checking out, I assume it'd come up on a search, and I think it's from before Booman Tribune started.) I could even see Powell sharing one thing with the Neocons, his involvement in all of this (which would also explain Powell's current estrangement from Wilkerson, because Wilkerson's accusations threaten this game). But how does Scowcroft play into this? Is this gig really something that unified Neo and Real, or not?

Btw, Larisa from RS says her last three stories are all connected, and they connect in closely with where you're working here.

emptywheel said...

Oops, sorry for the url mess I made.

lukery said...

thnx EW.

i don't really really have a position on whether Grossman was the source for those WaPo articles - so i've simply been deferring to you on this (you being the expert and all). ari is also a possible source - although the pertinent question is the same: did the 'leaker' have pure motives or was s/he sent to Mike Allen by the cabal to cement the 'retribution' story?

larisa's latest articles have been frustrating - it's easy to triangulate and see what she's actualy thinking/investigating, but she has been very careful not to make any statement that she can't support, and she apparently doesn't wanna scoop herself on the *real* story. (i don't know whether she has read my posts, but i suspect so)

as to the neocon/Realist fault-lines, i'm not convinced the lines are as deep as advertised. the neocons and 'realists' sure seem to be able to put away the boxing gloves when it comes to say, the ATC. and the USACC, and the ACPC - particularly when it comes to scowcroft. Sibel seems to think that scowcroft is implicated, even when she says that she doesn't specifically know of his involvement.

you say that you are nearly convinced that "Grossman is not on the same team as the Wilson". I'm not sure of the extent of their friendship/association - and i'm not so concerned about whether they were friends at UCSB because we already know that they had a professional relationship lasting at least a decade.

there is the (very spooky) possibility grossman outed BJ AND that wilson and grossman are on the same team (chew on the implications of that for a bit). and there's also the possibility that scowcroft and grossman are close associates, and that scowcroft engineered/triggered the outing of BJ by pushing Wilson to go public in the spring of 03 (the question then would be whether wilson was willing or duped)

the booman post is primarily here, (also see #2 here and #3 here.) i actually hadn't seen it before. interesting. i will note that someone in the comments there suggested that Azerbaijani is spoken in a number of countries, and therefore an 'Azerbaijani' connection doesnt necessarily translate into Azerbaijan, the country.