This article by Gail Sheehy in the NewYorkObserver from Jan 04 helps us get a little closer to an answer
Firstly, here's Sheehy:
When Sibel invited the visitors in for tea, she said, Major Dickerson began asking Matthew Edmonds if the couple had many friends from Turkey here in the U.S. Mr. Edmonds said he didn't speak Turkish, so they didn't associate with many Turkish people. The Air Force officer then began talking up a Turkish organization in Washington that he described, according to the Edmondses, as "a great place to make connections and it could be very profitable."Here's David Rose in VF:
According to Sibel, Douglas asked if she and Matthew were involved with the local Turkish community, and whether they were members of two of its organized groups—the American-Turkish Council (A.T.C.) and the Assembly of Turkish American Associations (A.T.A.A.). “He said the A.T.C. was a good organization to belong to,” Matthew says. “It could help to ensure that we could retire early and live well, which was just what he and his wife planned to do. I said I was aware of the organization, but I thought you had to be in a relevant business in order to join.So Rose mentions both the ATC and the ATAA - although when you compare the two paras, it is apparent that the organization in the Sheehy piece is the ATC.
Back to Sheehy:
Sibel was sickened. This organization was the very one she and Jan Dickerson were monitoring in a 9/11 investigation...So the FBI was 'monitoring' the ATC regarding 911. It's not obvious whether the 'monitoring' about 911 occured after 911, or prior to, as well. We do know that the ATC was being monitored prior to 911 - and we know that Sibel has talked about the 911 warnings in April - although that came from Behrooz Sarshar, not from the ATC.
We also know that Brewster Jennings was watching the ATC prior to 911 (or do we? Sibel told me that she was 'aware of' BJ from her time at the FBI. We know Plame was at the ATC function where she met Wilson, although she wasn't on duty there apparently - but she was somehow in the milieu)
We also know that Sibel says that much of her material came from Counter-Intelligence operations, not counter-terrorism. We know that Plame was specifically CT - do we have any evidence that BJ was also involved in CI? I presume that they were.
Back to Sheehy:
Ms. Dickerson and her husband offered to introduce the Edmondses to people connected to the Turkish embassy in Washington who belonged to this organization.OK - first Sheehy says "people connected to the Turkish embassy" (apparently "two") and then in another context she says "a Turkish intelligence officer working out of the Turkish embassy"
"These two people were the top targets of our investigation!" Ms. Edmonds said of the people the Dickersons proposed to introduce them to...
The targets of that F.B.I. investigation left the country abruptly in 2002.
"These were documents directly related to a 9/11 investigation and suspects, and they had been sent to field agents in at least two cities." By accident, Ms. Edmonds discovered the breach--up to 400 pages of translations marked "not pertinent"--and insisted that those classified translations be sent back so she could retranslate them
"We discovered some amazing stuff," she remembered.
The first half-dozen translations were transcripts from an F.B.I. wiretap targeting a Turkish intelligence officer working out of the Turkish embassy in Washington, D.C.... Ms. Edmonds said she found them to reveal that the officer had spies working for him inside the U.S. State Department and at the Pentagon
(update - see below)
from the Hogue interview
"SE: On the other hand I have seen several, several top targets for these investigations of these terrorist activities that were allowed to leave the country--I'm not talking about weeks, I'm talking about months after 9/11"OK - so it appears there were several top targets (apparently not the Dickersons) who were allowed to leave the country months after 911. The Dickersons mentioned two of them to Sibel and offered introductions, and one of them was a Turkish intelligence officer working out of the Turkish embassy. For some reason, they apparently thought that they would be safe in the US for a while, but apparently they, or others, decided that they needed to leave - perhaps they were feeling the heat from Sibel. At least two of these people belonged to the ATC.
I wonder how we could find out who they were. I imagine that it would be of some interest to know who the top targets of the 911 investigation are/were - particularly because these people may have already been under suspicion before the attacks, precisely because of the possibility of such impending attacks.
So how do we found out who these people are? Is there any chance we could find a list of 'Turkish intelligence officers' at the time? Unlikely. How about those who 'belonged to' the ATC? 'belonged to' could mean a bunch of things - staff? executive? member? Their website doesn't offer a list of members (only companies & orgs).
I don't even know where to start - and I can't think of anyone who might have been a top 911 target who might have been working in the Turkish embassy, who was a member of the ATC and left the country in 2002. (Damien - anyone come to mind?)
In an interview with Scott, Sibel says:
"SE: Exactly. In fact, (AIPAC and ATC) have so many crossovers, if you look at their members you will see many that are members of both organizations. And if you look at the people who are in the management and are in charge of these lobbying groups, you come across the same names, which is very interesting."I wonder if the ATC members who left the US in 2002 were also members of AIPAC. That might help us a little bit
Moving on, back to Sheehy
the "Turkish intelligence officer... had spies working for him inside the U.S. State Department and at the Pentagon"I wonder how many of them we know. At State, we can presume Grossman - anyone else we can think of? Edelman was OVP. Sibel told me that she didnt know that Bolton was involved.
How about at the Pentagon? We know that we can probably count Feith, and possibly much of OSP. We know that Franklin and Rhode both speak Farsi, and were both involved in the Rome / Paris meetings with Ledeen and Ghorbanifar. We also know that Sibel called Franklin a patsy. It's also possible that she is referring to Perle here - although the DPB isnt officially Pentagon.
Wolfowitz was also at the Pentagon from the start of 2001 (and was also mentioned in the Giraldi article)
Xymphora was the first to identify Grossman - anyone else you can think of, xymph?
gotta run, more later.
---------
update - miguel in the comments notes a clarification about the 'Turkish Intelligence Officer'
This from the July 04 interview with Chris Deliso:
"CD: As I understand it, Jan Dickerson was also trying to protect one criminal associate – a Turkish-speaking suspect of an FBI investigation – by blocking translations referring to him. Yes?hmmm. So this person wasn't government (military maybe?), but was (presumably) "working out of the Turkish embassy" (or as Sheehy puts it: "connected to the Turkish embassy ") on 'behalf' of the ATC.
SE: Correct.
CD: And this was an official working out of the Turkish Embassy in Washington –
SE: No, that part is not correct. I cannot talk about the position or the job of this person –
CD: But in the other media stories about your case, he was identified as –
SE: Yes, I know. The term "official" was used in the senators' memos from their [summer 2002] meetings with the FBI, and so then when cited by the media it became automatically assumed that he was government – but since this individual has never been named, I can only describe him as working on behalf of a "semi-legitimate" organization."
23 comments:
Regrettably, Lukery, I have no useful knowledge on the ATC or related issues. I rely on your good work there.
Richard Andrew Grove is a top corporate software developer who gets a writeup at 911blogger for his interview on Meria Heller. I've only listened to half the audio and he is all over the place in presenting his case, but he basically alleges that 9/11 was a high level corporate sting. He lists a whole lot of corporate connections which need closer examination.
Grove highlights some important 9/11 details that have been neglected.
He says that Stewart Air Force base played a big role on 9/11 (it was near where two of the planes had their transponders turned off). Also, that it's a privatised air base with interesting corporate connections and was where the Iran hostages first returned to in Jan 1981, courtesy of Reagan's October Surprise.
He talks up Rumsfeld's announcement to Congress on Sept 10 of a "missing" $2.3 TRILLION from the Defence accounts as too well timed, a massive fraud that was subsequently ignored.
Grove also discusses the 1993 WTC bombing as a possible first attempt by the same people. (recall Peter Lance post.)
He points to the lost corporate crime records in the WTC and the Silverstein/WTC7 shenanigins.
Grove alleges that because the NSA and CIA subcontract much of their work to major corporations these then effectively become branch agencies of their employers, privy to a great deal of classified material, and with strong financial incentives to go along with corrupt practices.
One interesting aspect is his rave on the quality of interactive software available to a few leading companies he identifies as behind 9/11 (Marsh and McLellan, AIG, Dyncorp and others) which would have allowed for the monitoring (and scamming) of financial markets. He muses that the NSA would have had software of at least this quality. This is an interesting parallel to the account given by Indira Singh about Promis software who made similar claims.
We know NORAD serviced FAA radar and had software to inject data onto FAA screens. We know the Presidential Security Service monitored FAA radar in real time. We know the CIA monitored financial markets for unusual traffic. Both Grove and Singh confirm each other in their claims that extremely high quality software was available to all these agencies (and to select members of the corporate sector) on and pre-911.
Grove has some wacky claims (Fitzgerald gets an indirect link) and there is a whole lot of other material. But Meria Heller says he has important stuff supporting his assertion of 9/11 as corporate sting. It's a fair argument, but it would be good if a few other people can look it over.
Nice summary Damien. I listened to the Grove interview. He was all over the place. Sure was interesting though. HAARP. CFR. Spitzer. Fitz. And gold bullion...ie...he mentioned Diehard 3 as a example of what happened on 9/11.
What stood out:
He claimed that some intelligence officials that he noticed on the scene were not there to help people. He said this a couple of times but never really explained what he meant. His theory was that when he lived in VA, he noticed vehicles used by the CIA for training exercises. He says he the saw the same vehicles at the WTC site on 9/11.
He suggests Kroll and Marsh & Mclennan may have been involved in the numerous financial transactions that took place right before the attacks. Interesting chain of company acquisition...ie...Convar (German company) got the contract to recover financial transaction data from the hard drives that were salvaged from the WTC site. Convar was purchased by Kroll. Kroll was purchased by Marsh & Mclennan. Michael Cherkasky was the CEO of Kroll and is currently the CEO of Marsh & Mclennan. I believe Convar turned over their findings to the FBI. Pretty sure that the FBI never pursued that investigation.
A couple of strange coincidences:
Kroll was the company that hired former FBI anti-terrorism expert John O'Neill.
Paul Bremer worked for Marsh & Mclennan at the time of the attacks.
I think "Turkish intelligence officer" may be imprecise. From Sibel's first interview with Deliso in July 2004, she seemed to say that was misreported.
Its interesting to note that Turkey changed Ambassadors in October, '01, 1 month after 9/11 (I think).
I don't have my Bush books handy here in CA. but one of them, I'll have to look, mentions a Bush crony who was Presdient of Deutch Bank which sold all the put options on United Airlines before 9/11. Time for me to re-read everything. Who else was at the meeting of the Carlye Group which included Bin Ladens on 9/10? Perhaps a glance at Bu$hmerika's Bush Family Skeletons section will jog memories?
Could Sibel do what the CIA analyst who wrote Imperial Hubris did, and sign it Anonymous? Would that be too dangerous for her?
Probably would be too dangerous Kathleen. Especially with today's SCOTUS ruling on whistleblower's free speech protection (or lack thereof)...
thnx everyone.
i'll get to the other comments later - but I have updated the post as per miguel's suggestions. (thanks Miguel!)
kathleen - sibel has said that she might be interested in a book (see pg 3 of the deliso interview in the post)
also - Buzzy Krongard former head of Alex Brown (investment arm of Deutch Bank). he was also head (exec dir?) of CIA - although i havent seen anything to (seriously) suggest anything nefarious about that.
fwiw Mike Ruppert alleges that Deutsche Bank had a big role in the 911 options trades.
Executive/DOD/State. Pretty powerful faction.
Money laundering. Drug and weapons (including nukes) trafficking. Links to terrorism (likely including 9/11). Oil pipelines. Rendition. War profiteering.
Domestically: Bribes, blackmail, no Congressional oversight, MSM propaganda and likely use of the NSA for political advantage.
If Congress won't do oversight that means that the Executive branch can exploit the CIA and FBI. Evidently, the CIA was the greatest threat to Executive power so that's why Bush Co. blamed everything on the CIA and put in a partisan hack like Goss to weed out any agents who wouldn't follow the White House line. One theory of the Hayden nomination is that he will simply fold the CIA into the DOD. Thus, there won't be any debate about whether Iran truly poses a threat.
Bottom line: It looks more and more like Perle and Feith are simply part of the faction that doesn't have to play by any rules.
damien - i acknowledge that the trades took place - but the krongard connection (as far as i can tell) is of no particular interest.
oy - that grover interview is hurting my head - and not in a good way (i've only listened to half of it as well)
Yeah, thanks for that Lukery, on the 911 trades. it's an easy thing to make sweeping allegations or to identify links that may be coincidental. It's another thing altogether to find real evidence and confirm details.
This Richard Grove promises much. I've had a closer look at his transcript and, like you, I'm getting suspicious. A senior corporate manager making a business presentation as he does would be out the door pretty quick.
(And he deserves some kind of fucking award for his crappy presentation style.)
Anyway, it looks like he should be kept at arms length for a while. Sorry if I jumped the gun here.
Harrison Ford has all the good evidence. :)
Grove talked about RFID's. He suggested a film called "Who killed John O'Neill." I watched it (if it was the right one it was only 8 minutes long). Throws in some stuff about conspiracies and the CFR.
He talked about the Plame case, suggesting that lots of agents were killed when BJ was outed. I got the sense he got this news from Rense.com
I'll wait and see. Have lots of doubts about his story. Meria Heller said she would have him on in June.
damien: "Regrettably, Lukery, I have no useful knowledge on the ATC"
any thoughts about anyone who may have been a top target from turkey?
damien: "Sorry if I jumped the gun here."
dont be a spaz!
he lost me when amex called in his bill - amex is supposed to be paid in full every month (unlike 'credit' cards')
kathleen: "Who else was at the meeting of the Carlye Group which included Bin Ladens on 9/10?"
sibel and larisa both point to those meetings (and the ISI/Grossman/Goss/Graham et al) as being very important - larisa says that they arent important becuase of the date - but just that they were taking place at all (and had been for a while)
i infer that those meetings have as much to do with heroin trafficking than other legal corp shenanigans
noise: "He talked about the Plame case, suggesting that lots of agents were killed when BJ was outed. I got the sense he got this news from Rense.com"
noise - i meant to chase that one up - is there are a particular rense article that you are referring to? AFAIK we dont really know how many people may have been killed. i think he said 'up to a hundred' or something. (or are you just suggesting the claim was in cuckooland?)
noise: "Bottom line: It looks more and more like Perle and Feith are simply part of the faction that doesn't have to play by any rules."
i have no doubt that is true
I'm not doing Turkey this week. But I can offer you a good deal on one slightly used (and completely unmarked!) red bandana courtesy of Culhavoc which survived the Flight 93 crash. It turned up with a whole lot of other wreckage which was mysteriously not observed by those who were first on the scene. According to the miracle cell phone calls from Flight 93 the terrorists had donned red bandanas (which they must have picked up on their last trip to Vegas.) Anyhow, given that green is the color of Islamic martyrs and red is frowned upon by the Prophet, we can put the red bandana stuff up down to some low level CIA flunkie who has since been promoted.
Culhavoc also provides some details on Andrew Grove
Maybe a long shot. Recently I have been reading about the the BCCI scandal. It appears to me that BCCI then fullfilled the same function for the parties involved as the multinational inter-operating networks Sibel Edmonds describes, do now. Everything from the cover-up to the ingredients of BCCI match that of the networks Edmonds seems to describe. How I understand it there is a lobbying layer that includes and extends to politicians and government officials in several countries. Behind that there are connections to intelligence and criminal related activities ranging from drugs, weapons, corruption, proliferation, genral money laundering and possibly covert operations (support).
Regarding the 9-11 element in Sibel's story. I always assumed the sky scraper blue prints that Sibel spoke about were 9-11 related. I don't have the impression that if Sibel Edmonds was able to speak her mind fully, she would have all the information to fully clear up what happened on 9-11. My best guess is she has seen some information that if extrapolated could explain 9-11 or shine a different light on it. The same holds for Robert Wright and others whose investigations were obstructed. Actually there is a pattern of obstruction of terror related investigations which already started with Emad Salem in 1993. These obstructions don't just happen but must have a purpose and serve certain interests. It wouldn't amaze me at all that the interests served are not those of the American people, what could explain the term treason, Sibel used several times.
In the case the 9-11 attacks were false flag operations it would be easy to imagine how BCCI-like networks could have been used for this. If a BCCI-like network would exist as a gathering for international criminal activity and covert intelligence related activity this could further explain what Sibel meant by 'information that was sold to the highest bidder' and for example the successor of the Khan nuclear proliferation network as she described. In this case the $100.000 send to (patsy) Atta by Pakistani ISI related persons, without holding them responsible for the deaths of 3000 Americans, would also be understandable.
In the case the 9-11 attacks came as a total surprise for the Americain security apparatus, and the attacks were executed or supported by elements in these networks I would have no explantion ready. But if the blue print Sibel talked about were indeed 9-11 related it must have given a good insight into the inner workings of the 9-11 operations.
anon - good points all. thnx.
i think the BCCI analogy is probably quite close.
"I don't have the impression that if Sibel Edmonds was able to speak her mind fully, she would have all the information to fully clear up what happened on 9-11"
for clarification of what sibel does and doesnt know re 911, see here
you can see my stuff on the blueprints here (and follow the links back)
Transcript of Grove's commentary
I was suggesting he was going overboard on the speculation. Upon reviewing the transcript, he did attribute his comments about the damage of the Plame leak to "some sources." Still, his repeated use of theories/speculation (while interesting) raised some red flags.
Post a Comment