(also note that I transcribed a 2 month old interview about spying that is very interesting but which had never been transcribed before. I was going to publish it at the same time as I published part4 of the larisa interview, but I think I'll publish it on Monday anyway, if Hayden gets nominated)
anyhoo - this is from the Russel Tice interview from Democracy Now, that I mentioned the other day (cos he slams Hayden - "certainly General Hayden knew that this was illegal"):
I wasn't familiar with the Katrina Leung story - so I took a look at her wikipedia entry, and it turns out that Josh Marshall wrote a long article about her story for Washington MonthlyAMY GOODMAN: We talk to Russell Tice, former intelligence agent with the National Security Agency, formerly with the Defense Intelligence Agency, worked with the N.S.A. up until May 2005. Russell Tice, what happened then? What happened in May 2005?
RUSSELL TICE: Well, basically I was given my walking papers and told I was no longer a federal employee. So --
AMY GOODMAN: Why?
RUSSELL TICE: Some time ago I had some concerns about a co-worker at D.I.A. who exhibited the classic signs of being involved in espionage, and I reported that and basically got blown off by the counterintelligence office at D.I.A. and kind of pushed the issue, because I continued to see a pattern of there being a problem. And once I got back to N.S.A., I pretty much dropped the issue, but there was a report that came across my desk in April of 2003 about two F.B.I. agents that were possibly passing secret counterintelligence information to a Chinese double agent, Katrina Leung, and I sent a secure message back to the D.I.A. counterintelligence officer, and I said I think the F.B.I. is incompetent, and the retaliation came down on me like a ton of bricks.
Josh opens thusly:
In March, 2003, the FBI arrested a Chinese-American businesswoman and Republican fundraiser, alleging that she had passed a frighteningly broad range of American intelligence secrets to the People's Republic of China (PRC). For two decades, Katrina Leung had been a paid bureau informant, supplying information on Chinese intelligence operations in America. She'd also been sleeping with two senior FBI agents--one of whom was her so-called "handler"--for the better part of those two decades. It was alleged that she had transmitted what she learned about American counterintelligence from her lovers to Beijing and sent Beijing's disinformation back through the FBI. The story was sordid, embarrassing, and, worse than that, quite grave: Intelligence sources told The Washington Post that Leung had single-handedly compromised 20 years of American counter-intelligence work against the PRC.Interesting.
Democrats, who in 1997 weathered endless--and ultimately unproven -- accusations of selling political favors or national security secrets for PRC money, can take a measure of satisfaction from this unlikely coda: The only bonafide Chinese spy so far turns out to have been not only a Republican, but a well-connected GOP fundraiser. And not just any Republican fundraiser, but one who happened to be sleeping with one of the lead FBI agents investigating Democratic fundraising.
Back to Tice - here's his odd statement again:
"RUSSELL TICE: Some time ago I had some concerns about a co-worker at D.I.A. who exhibited the classic signs of being involved in espionage, and I reported that and basically got blown off by the counterintelligence office at D.I.A. and kind of pushed the issue, because I continued to see a pattern of there being a problem. And once I got back to N.S.A., I pretty much dropped the issue, but there was a report that came across my desk in April of 2003 about two F.B.I. agents that were possibly passing secret counterintelligence information to a Chinese double agent, Katrina Leung, and I sent a secure message back to the D.I.A. counterintelligence officer, and I said I think the F.B.I. is incompetent, and the retaliation came down on me like a ton of bricks."It's actually a very weird statement - he was asked why he was fired in May 2005 - and he answers by mentioning some apparently unrelated espionage issue with a DIA co-worker (pre April 2003) - and then he segues to the Katrina Leung thing in April 2003. But according to Josh, Leung was arrested before then - in March 2003. Odd.
Also, Tice was asked why he was fired in May 2005, and his answer is that he was retaliated against for the April 2003 thing - 2 years earlier. more oddness.
He also seems to suggest that the retaliation was because he criticized the FBI, rather than the actual issues re Leung or the DIA espionage. (Josh's article is mostly about the problems at the FBI).
Does anyone have any observations re Tice's comment? I just dont understand it at all. One thing I've noticed with intelligence types (eg interviewing Sibel and Larisa, and listening to them elsewhere and reading their articles) is that they choose their words very carefully. Tice worked in intelligence circles for 20 years - so his answer to Amy's question isn't some rambling self-serving answer that your buddy might give when you ask him why he was fired from his job. (and Amy didnt ask why he was fired, exactly, she just asked 'what happened in May 2005?') - so I suspect his comment is quite significant.
i've continued the post here
----------
update: from emptywheel in the comments:
The timing is interesting - Leung was arrested immediately after Tice sent his message to DIA (although the arrest wasn't necessarily the result of Tice's message) - and yet he was retaliated against away. It's also not obvious who exactly was doing the retaliation - was it the FBI? DIA? NSA?
Also note that the retailiation was because he called the FBI 'incompetent' - rather than anything more nefarious.
From the wapo article:
"In a sharply worded opinion, U.S. District Judge Florence-Marie Cooper said prosecutors committed misconduct by making a plea agreement with Smith in which he was barred from sharing any more information with Leung or her lawyers."
[]
The lawyers said that prosecutors "engaged in misconduct," gagging Smith and then trying to cover it up
[]
Smith last spring pleaded guilty to lying about the affair during an FBI background review and agreed to cooperate...
Also of note:
"Joe Lieberman... asked the Justice Department to open an investigation into whether Leung may have funnelled money into GOP coffers in the 1990s. Senators Leahy, Grassley, Specter then asked Orrin Hatch to open an investigation in the Senate. But Hatch responded that his committee was "too busy" to hold such hearings. Imagine that."and
"Newsweek's Michael Isakoff reports reports that Katrina Leung was instrumental in the Justice Department's 1996 investigation into campaign contributions to then President Clinton and Vice President Gore. She was supposed to be an agent for the U.S, trying to lure a large Chinese contributor back to the U.S. Now, there are doubts--was she compromising the campaign financing investigation and actually working to protect the Chinese contributor?I don't want to get too far into this Leung rabbit-hole because we've got more pressing issues - and Tice's whistleblowing has nothing to do with this Leung case (or the espionage) - but rather the 'vacuuming' up of possibly the entire communications network.Another dimension to the case involves FBI Agent Smith, Leung's handler and lover. It turns out Smith was also the agent in charge of debriefing and maintaining contact with Johnny Chung, a key figure in the 1996 campaign fund-raising scandal who cooperated in the Justice Department's probe after pleading guilty to tax evasion and violations of campaign finance laws."
I think Josh is wrong. In this April 10 article, Eric Lichtblau (who did a superb job with this story) says she was arrested that day.
[]
And two, the FBI knew starting in 1991 that Leung was a double agent. So Tice (who is likely a source for Risen and Lichtblau) may know that the FBI didn't investigate Leung, knowing that she was a double agent.
It's also worth noting that Leung went free, largely and indirectly through the efforts of John Cline, one of Libby's lawyers. How the fuck does a double agent, caught spying, go free?
[]
The charges against Leung were dismissed in January 2005. If Tice saw something that was willful with that dismissal (and I think it highly likely that the Ashcroft DOJ didn't try too hard to prosecute their fundraiser) then he may have been making a stink about it in spring 2005.
Just suppose, if you will, that DOJ intentionally negotiated a plea deal with Smith, the FBI agent, knowing that it would result in the Leung charges getting thrown out. They'd certainly want to keep Tice silent if he was squawking about it.