Wednesday, August 23, 2006

speaking of smart commenters,

* glenn:
"The attack on Judge Taylor's opinion was swift and aggressive -- but quite misguided in many instances, and just factually wrong in others. Her core rulings, particularly her conclusion that the Bush administration is violating the law without excuse, have strong support among the bulk of legal authorities (including "expert" commentators), and while it is certainly possible that there will be some ultimate reversal on a procedural issue (most likely the "standing" problem), it has become quite clear that with regard to the substantive issues, it is not Judge Taylor, but her critics, who have lacked "scholarly depth" in their analysis."

* speaking of smart commenters, everyone is gushing at Damien over here and the extraordinary depth of his 911 knowledge. The particular issue they are discussing at the mo is something to do with Jeb Bush declaring a state of emergency a few days before 911. I don't really understand it - it appears that Jeb changed the relevant legislation a few days before 911, and then triggered it immediately when the planes hit. or something. Damien also has a post up about an apparent assassination attempt on Blinky on the morning of 911. As an aside, there's also the story of the apparently unusual rooftop anti-aircraft missiles (or something) at the hotel that previous evening - it got a brief mention in (thnx again kyle, larisa) - all of which makes the extended stay at the kindergarten even weirder - (and no, it wasn't 'seven minutes'.)

Relatedly, there's another terrific comment thread here in my 'hijacker visa' post that is still quietly kicking over in the background - i've been meaning to point you all to it again. lot's of great stuff from everyone, with damien leading the way.

updated to add: larisa thinks you are all smart too.


damien said...

Will you be paying for that by Visa or Paypal? ;)

damien said...

What's more significant in my mind than the Florida state of emergency is that in the weeks prior to 9/11, 24/7 fighter cover was placed over the Prez's ranch in Crawford, Texas.

LeeB said...

" . . . 24/7 fighter cover was placed over the Prez's ranch in Crawford, Texas"

Funny you should bring that up, Damien. That's not the only weirdness that occurred in the run-up to 9/11.

John O'Neill, the chief anti-terrorism investigator for years, and who had finally secured his dream job as Deputy Director of the NYC FBI office, quit in August 2001 in frustration because the bu$h regime refused to deal with what he had learned about bin Laden and al Qaida, and had essentially shut down the investigation when it revealed the al Qaida connections to Saudi Arabia. He took the job of Director of Security at the WTC and died in the attacks, but not before he gave an interview to the authors of Forbidden Truth: U.S.-Taliban Secret Oil Diplomacy and the Failed Hunt for Bin Laden, by Jean-Charles Brisard & Guillaume Dasquie.

This book discusses Big Oil's designs on building a pipeline across Afghanistan and reports a meeting (about that pipeline) on May 15, 2001, in Berlin in which a U.S. official sent a message to the Taliban, "Either you accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs."

It came out after the attacks that assorted VIPs, like the mayors of mebbe two California cities (running on memory here), and some other *important* individuals, were warned to stay off commercial airplanes.

John Ashcroft, then U.S. Attorney General, had switched to flying only by special U.S. government planes (generally military) on some flimsy-sounding excuse, instead of the usual use of commercial flights.

Hmmmm. Wonder why. Not.

lukery said...

can't wait for y'all to see PressForTruth (altho i don't think they mentioned the fighter cover)

they demonstrably indicate that the bushies knew SOMETHING was coming - not least the aug6 pdb - and so the air cover stuff isnt really surprising. the movie then categorically demonstrates that they were lying everytime they said 'noone could have imagined'

damien said...

...ah, but you may have forgetten NORAD - "we only had 4 planes to protect the whole eastern seabord on 9/11". Yet they could find 24/7 coverage for Bushie in Aug-Sep. Here's some more on fighter aircraft and 9/11:

At 10.00am Bush called Cheney. By this stage the military had been placed on alert status defcon 3. It was only at 12.00pm that they were finally put on the highest level defcon 4 – a continuation of a pattern of inappropriate military responses on the day.

In a further departure from expected security procedures, no fighter aircraft were sent to accompany Air Force One even though there were supposedly two equipped air bases within fifteen minutes flying time from Sarasota.

Bush then travelled to Barksdale Air Force Base, Louisiana arriving there at 11.40 am. Fighters only met Air Force One from Texas air bases as he crossed into Texas. That’s about 2 hours after the first WTC attack.

No-one seemed too worried about the Preznit on 9/11. Reporter assassins are shooed away, previously 24/7 fighter aircraft now take 2 hours to get to AirForce One. What a day!!

I look forward to the movie.

On the "no-one could have imagined stuff" there's this.

damien said...

LeeB: you got it right on the John O'Neill stuff. Whoever the Bushies are working for, it isn't the American people.

LeeB said...

"Whoever the Bushies are working for, it isn't the American people."

No SITH! Their scam worked until the shock wore off and then people began noticing the pieces that don't fit and the holes in the rest of the story.

Luke, there is no question they knew it was coming. I think it was around about mid-May 2002 that one of the NYC papers had the banner headline "BUSH KNEW" . . . The facts were beginning to be knitted together by some people shortly before that and I think ol' KKKarl was probably doing his dirty work to diffuse the fallout . . . I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had some kind of a hand in that headline.

And you are quite right about the "no one could have imagined" crap. Just the July 2001 G-8 in Italy would be enough to convince anyone that was a huge lie - Egypt warned they expected such an event there, so bu$h stayed on a Naval vessel instead of in a hotel.

Now, with the addition of the recently-surfaced information about NORAD - the "drill" that confused the air traffic controllers that day - it's just a bit too much to swallow. (Then they apparently repeated that bit in London last year with the subway bombings.) I don't believe in coincidences to begin with, but when they used the same M/O twice??! Give. me. a. break.

rimone said...

lukery: larisa thinks you are all smart too.

LMAO! obviously she missed all my ridiculous commentary. which is good--if i ever meet her in meatspace, i so don't wanna be connected to my posted inanities.

lukery said...

damien - re norad - yes - there was something weird going on - and i'm not for a minute suggesting that because they knew and were defending certain parts (ie themselves) that they also were trying to defend the country.

my best guess is that they outsourced the whole operation - and got a bit nervous at the last minute about whether they had control of it - hence the hotel defense etc - although i still dont understand why he was allowed to sit for half an hour with the kids

lukery said...



lukery said...

LeeB - i can't believe that the latest NORAD thing was a one day story.


lukery said...

rimone - posting stuff stays with you forever. i'll never be able to get a job again.

damien said...

Luke: "...although i still dont understand why he was allowed to sit for half an hour with the kids"

I've argued previously on this:

“What were the effects of President Bush’s presence at Sarasota during the crisis and his delayed departure on public perceptions?”

(1) The public formed the view that the 911 events unfolded to the authorities only from 8.48am onwards (when in fact they had been identified as early as 8.15am).

(2) If the President thought only a small plane had accidentally flown into the north tower, then that was probably what the authorities initially thought as well. (also, untrue).

(3) If the security services had allowed the President to remain in an unsecured location till 9.30am as they did, then there must have been a general confusion across all government agencies as to the nature of the events that were unfolding (untrue, unless some exceptional circumstances prevailed - such as simultaneous military exercises, or simulated hijackings that confused FAA and NORAD officials).

Imagine now if Bush had not entered Booker Elementary on hearing of the 8.48 crash but had proceeded immediately to Air Force One and taken charge of the crisis.

Would Rumsfeld have remained uncontactable till 9.41am?

Would any explanation by him along those lines have been accepted by the American people?

What explanation would NORAD have been able to provide for not getting any defence aircraft airborne, especially against Flight 77?

We need to understand that the practical effect - intended or otherwise - of President Bush’s extended stay at the elementary school till 9.30am was to give credibility to the later unsatisfactory explanations for the failure of US air defences on 911.

(We are, of course, unable to review the leadership of President Bush on 911 since the phone records have been lost....Bush was scheduled to leave Booker at 9.30am. He did exactly that. Bush has said a number of times publicly that he is proud of being punctual.)

lukery said...

thnx D.

'proud of being punctual'

Kathleen said...

I am sooooo waaaaay past "Bush Knew". He fucking planned it.

That's why they knew he wasn't really in any danger. I think the assasination "attempt" was their excuse for declaring a state of emergency in Fla. days ahead of 9/11. He was probably picking up some gold, not plotting an assasination, but it plays better that way, if you're trying to look all Patriotic.

Kathleen Reardon is correct. The "He's an idiot" is a trial balloon. You can't go from "He's the "Commander-In-Chief", all knowing Deciderator, guy calling all the shots and telling Old
Europe what's what, to idiot in one fell swoop without voters getting whiplash. They're priming the media for a Reaganesque Iran-Contra, " I don't know. I can't remember" defense.

When Iran-Contra first hit the fan, the Gipper booked it to the hospital to get his butt hole repaired. I kid you not. And we were treated to graphs of his a-hole on the evening news to explain what was wrong. It was so surrealistic and bizarre. If only Freud could have seen it. Talk about anal.

I agree with LeeB that he is clever, cunning and would add unscrupulous, and scheming, but that doesn't mean he isn't still an idiot when all gets said and done. I've see the smartest people do the dumbest things and the dumbest people do the cleverest things. Go figure.

Your comments are like the gift that keeps on giving. 9/11 is like one of those 1000 piece puzzles, I'm piecing together in my head and you always help me fill in some blank spots.

Rimone, I always get a kick out your observations and remarks, astooooot, with a twist, for flavor.

Anon: I'm just catching on to how broad your background is.

Guys, I'm gonna have to give up my day job to keep up.